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Cash: use it or lose it!
Is this the last decade of cash? The corona pandemic is not helping. Belgian media is picking up the Australian news about the coronavirus found active 28 days on banknotes, without understanding that the 28 days is on the Australian polymer and paper banknotes, while Euro banknotes are made of cotton fibers on which the coronavirus gets inactive rather quick. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-euro-banknotes-safe-coronavirus-ecb.html You are touching so much in shops, including the pay terminals everyone is touching, that cash won't add much risk. Until this year, I used to not care, and pay everything electronically. But in March I became the victim of an identity theft. My bank account was frozen, my bank cards and payment app blocked. Opening new bank accounts or credit cards was impossible due to being on a blacklist. My employer could not pay my salary in cash. For most professions this is forbidden by law since 2016. Friends lent me cash. But I discovered cash was refused at supermarkets, shops, public transport, parkings, fuel stations, hospital, physiotherapist, online webshops, Uber, Deliveroo, etc. Sometimes because of corona anxiety, but often already from before 2020. Prepaid cards could be a nice solution. But even while they are debit cards, in Belgium they seem to be refused where credit cards are refused, since they are Visa or Mastercards cards. These are refused in many Belgium places, since merchants don't like the higher costs. Not many prepaid cards allow charging with cash. And their availability is in recent decline: this year at least the following prepaid cards stopped or are announced to stop: Carrefour prepaid Flex card, BNP and Hello. The decline might be due to new very strict EU anti-money laundering laws. The anonymous prepaid cards (and generic gift cards) are now restricted to 100 euro maximum recharge in their lifetime and 50 euro payments. Cryptocurrencies are also in theory a nice solution. But their acceptance in Belgium is extremely limited. Thanks to Takeaway accepting bitcoin, I could order delivery from many local snack restaurants. But I discovered that bitcoin and most other cryptocurrencies, while having an "anonymous" reputation, are actually only pseudonymous and extremely open and transparent: for every transaction the origin address, destination address, amount and timestamp are recorded for eternity in a public ledger for everyone open to consult. When I buy something, the merchant can see how many coins I have in my wallet address. Buying, spending or selling coins are activities that can get your name connected to your addresses. Developers try to solve this privacy issue, but I'm afraid the war on anonymity (related to the war on cash) will crush that before cryptocurrency payments become popular. So, my identity theft experience has awakened me: sharing your personal details in so many places caries a lot of danger. Think about it: while the law became more strict, there are still many (online) shops and restaurants taking knowledge of your credit card number, expiry date, CCV and your name. That's still enough information to do fraudulent payments in many places. The cashless society is a surveillance society, with every payment traced. And it creates a lot of dependencies: electricity, internet, and permission by the banking and payment system. Once you are on a blacklist, even if you did nothing wrong, but somebody pretended to be you and did fraudulent payments, you are screwed for at least months. So, now that I'm finally off the blacklist, I opened several bank accounts. That will not help for all issues, but still: having only 1 bank is really dangerous. And from now on I pay everything possible with cash. Not just to keep my personal details safe, but also to keep the cash usage statistics high. Did you notice that the financial sector is regulary reporting the cash withdrawals decline? They report both the total amount withdrawn and the number of withdrawals. I learned that the bank and payment processors are fighting a war on cash and they are actively lobbying the government for a reduction of the cash payment limit to 50 euro. Yes, an insane fifty euro! The banks are lazy about cash and want to impose negative rent without risking a bankrun. No cash is no bankrun. The payment processors just love the percentage they get from every payment. Currently the acceptance of euro banknotes and coins for debts is compulsory by European law. But many merchants violated the law and we had at least one Belgian minister ignoring the enforcement. See e.g. this article from 2019: https://www.bruzz.be/samenleving/no-cash-doet-intrede-brusselse-horeca-2019-05-10. The law has exceptions, e.g. for security reasons such as a pandemic. After the pandemic I will try to report all cash refusing merchants. Merchants that refuse to accept cash payments can be reported at https://meldpunt.belgie.be or https://pointdecontact.belgique.be/. But I guess it is better to wait until after the pandemic. We need to defend the right to use cash. And a crucial action to avoid the end of cash is to keep using it as much as possible. Every time you pay with a bank card or app, you contribute to a cashless future where:
banks, payment processors and government have total control over your finances (see protestors in Hong Kong preferring cash payments).
every financial transaction is monitored and logged forever.
your financial data will be used to calculate your social credit (already happening in China, that is eager to export that concept and technology).
every payment can be blocked (already happening with webcam sex workers).
personae non gratae can be totally financially blocked.
tourists have a hard time paying. E.g. in China, most payments, including toilets, need to be done with the WeChat app, but without Chinese bankaccount it's hard to enable WeChat payments.
you are in trouble when electricity, networks or payment systems go down.
banks can easily charge negative rent because you can't withdraw your money.
when banks or governments are in need of money, they easily take a percentage of your money (like they did in Cyprus with the bank deposits above 100000 euro, and as they initially wanted to do under 100000 euro too).
people spend more, up to the level financial mismanagement, because cashless payments disconnect the pleasure of buying from the pain of paying. Studies show that psychological effect already. See e.g. "consumers are more likely to buy unhealthy food products when they pay by credit card than when they pay in cash." in https://academic.oup.com/jcarticle-abstract/38/1/126/1798815
homeless people and charities are less able to get donations. Experiments and data are showing the effect already now people are carrying less cash.
My story with the Hong Kong entrepreneur girl from Tinder: A failed scam from m.ctfcoin.cc !!
Hello Reddit, So my story started about a week ago, on Tinder. I matched with a Chinese girl she told me she is an entrepreneur from Hong Kong, after a casual talk she gave me her WhatsApp number. As soon as we started talking on WhatsApp, she started talking about the pandemic and how things aren't good for businesses then she told me that she found a solution to make money while at home. I didn't ask her how, but she started talking about Bitcoin trading and she gave me a link to m.ctfcoin.cc (I didn't ask and I'm really not interested in any shape or form of trading). I suspected a scam but I wanted to investigate how it works. She sent me two pictures of her in South Korea to gain my trust. Then she started talking about coming to Paris after the outbreak is finished. Then, she started asking about my life details, how much I make, do I live by myself or with my parents (Some classic social engineering question) and I gave her unexpected answers (I told her that I'm rich), I wanted to see what will be her next move. Despite of my answers (Apparently she wasn't prepared for a rich guy on Tinder), she told me she makes more money and I have to join her on Bitcoin trading. I said I'm not interested, she kept insisting, so I told her that I'll think about it. That evening I've looked at the domain name on Whois, there isn't much information about the owner but what I've seen is the domain creation date, it is recent and she told me she was trading for 6 months on the ctfcoin.cc. So at this point, I'm sure that it is a scam. But, I wanted to continue to see how it works. Maybe, I could save other people's money. Next day, she asked me to buy Bitcoins, I played as if I don't know how to use a computer. She asked me to do it while I'm working but I told her that I can't do it on my company network since they have security rules (In fact, I wanted to see if she will stay up until I go back home since there are a 6 hours time difference between Hong Kong and France). She was dedicated, she waited until 7 pm (1 am Hong Kong Time) to make sure I buy Bitcoins. Since she didn't precise from where I have to buy Bitcoins, I told her I bought Bitcoins from my banking app. She told me that she will show me how to use ctfcoin.cc and she asked me to create an account and she gave me a code to add it during the sign up (An affiliation code, apparently they pay by quota and the code identify that I came from her). Of course, I used fake information and a temporary email address to register. The next day, she kept asking if I transferred the money to ctfcoin.cc. I told her that I don't know how to do it and that I can't do it at work. Same as yesterday, she stayed awake until 1 am Hong Kong time. She asked me to send her a screenshot from my banking app (lol) I sent her a photoshopped banking app interface with 1K € Bitcoins inside, she felt for it. For the next 3 days, she kept asking if I made the transaction to ctfcoin, and as I said I played as if my grandma, I told her that I'll call the bank and that my banking app doesn't allow me to transfer Bitcoins. Then on Friday, she asked me If I'm available on Saturday (She knows I don't work). She told me she will show me how to properly buy bitcoins. So, she gave me a link to localbitcoins.com. On Saturday, I told her I don't know how to register an account (Just to see how long she could keep cool). I spent around 4 hours with her sending her screenshots and she replies to show me what to do (She was really dedicated, she didn't lose her temper). Then she showed me how to buy bitcoins from traders. I sent her modified screenshots with "inspect elements" and she didn't suspect anything, I told her that I have to call the bank to make an international transaction (I was watching a movie while she was waiting for the bank confirmation lol). And finally, after about 6 hours, I sent her a modified screenshot with "inspect elements" as if I bought 1K € Bitcoins. It was about 3am in Hong Kong time but she wanted to continue until I transfer supposed 1K € Bitcoins to ctfcoin.cc . I told her that we have to continue tomorrow. She insisted. But, I told her that I'm going out. On Sunday, early in the morning (apparently as soon as she woke up), she sent me a message asking for a screenshot (At this point she forgot to act or maybe she thought she is smart). So, long story short I was my grandma and I sent her screenshots to show me how to make the transfer then she asked for a screenshot from my wallet on ctfcoin.cc to see if the transaction is done. I sent her a modified screenshot with "inspect elements" as usual with around 1.4K $ (Surprise surprise !!). I asked her if I could start trading. She said it is too dangerous right now and that she will tell me when it's safe to trade. Today (Monday), she texted me asking for a screenshot from ctfcoin.cc (Apparently they told her that there was no money lol). I told her to wait until I go back home. She waited... She kept asking If I'm home... 1 am Hong Kong time she told me she can't sleep and that there is something wrong with my account. I asked her why she said that the transaction fees were too high. Anyway, I sent her a modified screenshot (I knew it is the last day). She said I modified the screenshot. I told her that I didn't and that I don't trust her anymore, and I asked her to send me a photo with a specific hand gesture to ensure that she was the girl in the first pictures that she sent me. She did but with no faces. But anyway I'm sure that she is a girl. Then, "Game over" time has come. She thought I was playing her game by her rules. In the end, I did it just to know how the scam works, and I've learned more about the mind of a scammer. You see the biggest problem with scammers is that they think they are smart, they are always in control of the situation. Even when I surprised her with what was happening since the beginning she denied and kept saying "I don't know what you are talking about" then when I started talking about Interpol and I asked her about who manages the scam. she blocked me... Anyway, that was my story maybe It will help someone because I looked for ctfcoin.cc and there is nothing about it on Google... Finally, please be aware of crypto coins trading scams. They chose crypto money for a reason since it is untraceable. There are many more safe ways to trade. Do your search before putting money on a website. If you find nothing it is not trustworthy.
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[Free Affiliate Training](www.driverfunnel.com/vid) Through my life I have believed that the good things that have happened to me, I have been in the right place at the right time — Just been lucky. It's only recently after talking with another entrepreneur that I realised that its not the fact. When I was 19 I was offered a job as an electricians mate for the summer when I was off collage. I had quit my first apprentice as a mechanic and started and accountancy course. The first week I was in Manchester the second week I was in Luxenberg and through that summer I was all around Europe. I was working for a DC power company based in Sweden, and being paid to travel all over. I worked hard and wanted to learn, so after summer I was offered an apprenticeship as an electrician. It didn’t stop there — for the 4 years I was working at that company I travelled all over the world, Hong Kong, Miami, Australia, Japan, so many great places. I was getting paid to travel the world — living the dream!! I believe the opportunity I had back then, made me who I am today. Was I lucky? NO! It was me who took that opportunity and each time was chosen to work in these different places, If I hadn’t of said yes — Someone else would of took the same opportunity I was given and that would be their past. Life is all about the choices you take. Don’t get me wrong I have also made some wrong decisions and although mistakes I have learnt from them on what NOT to do. Now I don’t talk about this much because of the stigma round it, and I definitely don’t promote it, in my market its seen as a big scam.😓 But back in 2017 I had a friend that started to mine Bitcoin, I didn’t understand it too much so had to ask 1000 questions just because he was a friend. To cut a long story short, I bought 2 bitcoin at £3200 each and just kept them in crypto wallet. Today a bitcoin is worth £9400! Was I lucky? NO! I took a chance, I gave it a go and it paid off! The point i'm trying to get to is that you are on this big green and blue earth once in your life! You spend most of your time trying to earn as much money as possible. Take chances, try new things and if your not happy with your current situation then you are the only one who is going to change it!
Transcript of discussion between an ASIC designer and several proof-of-work designers from #monero-pow channel on Freenode this morning
[08:07:01] lukminer contains precompiled cn/r math sequences for some blocks: https://lukminer.org/2019/03/09/oh-kay-v4r-here-we-come/ [08:07:11] try that with RandomX :P [08:09:00] tevador: are you ready for some RandomX feedback? it looks like the CNv4 is slowly stabilizing, hashrate comes down... [08:09:07] how does it even make sense to precompile it? [08:09:14] mine 1% faster for 2 minutes? [08:09:35] naturally we think the entire asic-resistance strategy is doomed to fail :) but that's a high-level thing, who knows. people may think it's great. [08:09:49] about RandomX: looks like the cache size was chosen to make it GPU-hard [08:09:56] looking forward to more docs [08:11:38] after initial skimming, I would think it's possible to make a 10x asic for RandomX. But at least for us, we will only make an ASIC if there is not a total ASIC hostility there in the first place. That's better for the secret miners then. [08:13:12] What I propose is this: we are working on an Ethash ASIC right now, and once we have that working, we would invite tevador or whoever wants to come to HK/Shenzhen and we walk you guys through how we would make a RandomX ASIC. You can then process this input in any way you like. Something like that. [08:13:49] unless asics (or other accelerators) re-emerge on XMR faster than expected, it looks like there is a little bit of time before RandomX rollout [08:14:22] 10x in what measure? $/hash or watt/hash? [08:14:46] watt/hash [08:15:19] so you can make 10 times more efficient double precisio FPU? [08:16:02] like I said let's try to be productive. You are having me here, let's work together! [08:16:15] continue with RandomX, publish more docs. that's always helpful. [08:16:37] I'm trying to understand how it's possible at all. Why AMD/Intel are so inefficient at running FP calculations? [08:18:05] midipoet ([email protected]/web/irccloud.com/x-vszshqqxwybvtsjm) has joined #monero-pow [08:18:17] hardware development works the other way round. We start with 1) math then 2) optimization priority 3) hw/sw boundary 4) IP selection 5) physical implementation [08:22:32] This still doesn't explain at which point you get 10x [08:23:07] Weren't you the ones claiming "We can accelerate ProgPoW by a factor of 3x to 8x." ? I find it hard to believe too. [08:30:20] sure [08:30:26] so my idea: first we finish our current chip [08:30:35] from simulation to silicon :) [08:30:40] we love this stuff... we do it anyway [08:30:59] now we have a communication channel, and we don't call each other names immediately anymore: big progress! [08:31:06] you know, we russians have a saying "it was smooth on paper, but they forgot about ravines" [08:31:12] So I need a bit more details [08:31:16] ha ha. good! [08:31:31] that's why I want to avoid to just make claims [08:31:34] let's work [08:31:40] RandomX comes in Sep/Oct, right? [08:31:45] Maybe [08:32:20] We need to audit it first [08:32:31] ok [08:32:59] we don't make chips to prove sw devs that their assumptions about hardware are wrong. especially not if these guys then promptly hardfork and move to the next wrong assumption :) [08:33:10] from the outside, this only means that hw & sw are devaluing each other [08:33:24] neither of us should do this [08:33:47] we are making chips that can hopefully accelerate more crypto ops in the future [08:33:52] signing, verifying, proving, etc. [08:34:02] PoW is just a feature like others [08:34:18] sech1: is it easy for you to come to Hong Kong? (visa-wise) [08:34:20] or difficult? [08:34:33] or are you there sometimes? [08:34:41] It's kind of far away [08:35:13] we are looking forward to more RandomX docs. that's the first step. [08:35:31] I want to avoid that we have some meme "Linzhi says they can accelerate XYZ by factor x" .... "ha ha ha" [08:35:37] right? we don't want that :) [08:35:39] doc is almost finished [08:35:40] What docs do you need? It's described pretty good [08:35:41] so I better say nothing now [08:35:50] we focus on our Ethash chip [08:36:05] then based on that, we are happy to walk interested people through the design and what else it can do [08:36:22] that's a better approach from my view than making claims that are laughed away (rightfully so, because no silicon...) [08:36:37] ethash ASIC is basically a glorified memory controller [08:36:39] sech1: tevador said something more is coming (he just did it again) [08:37:03] yes, some parts of RandomX are not described well [08:37:10] like dataset access logic [08:37:37] RandomX looks like progpow for CPU [08:37:54] yes [08:38:03] it is designed to reflect CPU [08:38:34] so any ASIC for it = CPU in essence [08:39:04] of course there are still some things in regular CPU that can be thrown away for RandomX [08:40:20] uncore parts are not used, but those will use very little power [08:40:37] except for memory controller [08:41:09] I'm just surprised sometimes, ok? let me ask: have you designed or taped out an asic before? isn't it risky to make assumptions about things that are largely unknown? [08:41:23] I would worry [08:41:31] that I get something wrong... [08:41:44] but I also worry like crazy that CNv4 will blow up, where you guys seem to be relaxed [08:42:06] I didn't want to bring up anything RandomX because CNv4 is such a nailbiter... :) [08:42:15] how do you guys know you don't have asics in a week or two? [08:42:38] we don't have experience with ASIC design, but RandomX is simply designed to exactly fit CPU capabilities, which is the best you can do anyways [08:43:09] similar as ProgPoW did with GPUs [08:43:14] some people say they want to do asic-resistance only until the vast majority of coins has been issued [08:43:21] that's at least reasonable [08:43:43] yeah but progpow totally will not work as advertised :) [08:44:08] yeah, I've seen that comment about progpow a few times already [08:44:11] which is no surprise if you know it's just a random sales story to sell a few more GPUs [08:44:13] RandomX is not permanent, we are expecting to switch to ASIC friendly in a few years if possible [08:44:18] yes [08:44:21] that makes sense [08:44:40] linzhi-sonia: how so? will it break or will it be asic-able with decent performance gains? [08:44:41] are you happy with CNv4 so far? [08:45:10] ah, long story. progpow is a masterpiece of deception, let's not get into it here. [08:45:21] if you know chip marketing it makes more sense [08:45:24] linzhi-sonia: So far? lol! a bit early to tell, don't you think? [08:45:35] the diff is coming down [08:45:41] first few hours looked scary [08:45:43] I remain skeptical: I only see ASICs being reasonable if they are already as ubiquitous as smartphones [08:45:46] yes, so far so good [08:46:01] we kbew the diff would not come down ubtil affter block 75 [08:46:10] yes [08:46:22] but first few hours it looks like only 5% hashrate left [08:46:27] looked [08:46:29] now it's better [08:46:51] the next worry is: when will "unexplainable" hashrate come back? [08:47:00] you hope 2-3 months? more? [08:47:05] so give it another couple of days. will probably overshoot to the downside, and then rise a bit as miners get updated and return [08:47:22] 3 months minimum turnaround, yes [08:47:28] nah [08:47:36] don't underestimate asicmakers :) [08:47:54] you guys don't get #1 priority on chip fabs [08:47:56] 3 months = 90 days. do you know what is happening in those 90 days exactly? I'm pretty sure you don't. same thing as before. [08:48:13] we don't do any secret chips btw [08:48:21] 3 months assumes they had a complete design ready to go, and added the last minute change in 1 day [08:48:24] do you know who is behind the hashrate that is now bricked? [08:48:27] innosilicon? [08:48:34] hyc: no no, and no. :) [08:48:44] hyc: have you designed or taped out a chip before? [08:48:51] yes, many years ago [08:49:10] then you should know that 90 days is not a fixed number [08:49:35] sure, but like I said, other makers have greater demand [08:49:35] especially not if you can prepare, if you just have to modify something, or you have more programmability in the chip than some people assume [08:50:07] we are chipmakers, we would never dare to do what you guys are doing with CNv4 :) but maybe that just means you are cooler! [08:50:07] and yes, programmability makes some aspect of turnaround easier [08:50:10] all fine [08:50:10] I hope it works! [08:50:28] do you know who is behind the hashrate that is now bricked? [08:50:29] inno? [08:50:41] we suspect so, but have no evidence [08:50:44] maybe we can try to find them, but we cannot spend too much time on this [08:50:53] it's probably not so much of a secret [08:51:01] why should it be, right? [08:51:10] devs want this cat-and-mouse game? devs get it... [08:51:35] there was one leak saying it's innosilicon [08:51:36] so you think 3 months, ok [08:51:43] inno is cool [08:51:46] good team [08:51:49] IP design house [08:51:54] in Wuhan [08:52:06] they send their people to conferences with fake biz cards :) [08:52:19] pretending to be other companies? [08:52:26] sure [08:52:28] ha ha [08:52:39] so when we see them, we look at whatever card they carry and laugh :) [08:52:52] they are perfectly suited for secret mining games [08:52:59] they made at most $6 million in 2 months of mining, so I wonder if it was worth it [08:53:10] yeah. no way to know [08:53:15] but it's good that you calculate! [08:53:24] this is all about cost/benefit [08:53:25] then you also understand - imagine the value of XMR goes up 5x, 10x [08:53:34] that whole "asic resistance" thing will come down like a house of cards [08:53:41] I would imagine they sell immediately [08:53:53] the investor may fully understand the risk [08:53:57] the buyer [08:54:13] it's not healthy, but that's another discussion [08:54:23] so mid-June [08:54:27] let's see [08:54:49] I would be susprised if CNv4 ASICs show up at all [08:54:56] surprised* [08:54:56] why? [08:55:05] is only an economic question [08:55:12] yeah should be interesting. FPGAs will be near their limits as well [08:55:16] unless XMR goes up a lot [08:55:19] no, not *only*. it's also a technology question [08:55:44] you believe CNv4 is "asic resistant"? which feature? [08:55:53] it's not [08:55:59] cnv4 = Rabdomx ? [08:56:03] no [08:56:07] cnv4=cryptinight/r [08:56:11] ah [08:56:18] CNv4 is the one we have now, I think [08:56:21] since yesterday [08:56:30] it's plenty enough resistant for current XMR price [08:56:45] that may be, yes! [08:56:55] I look at daily payouts. XMR = ca. 100k USD / day [08:57:03] it can hold until October, but it's not asic resistant [08:57:23] well, last 24h only 22,442 USD :) [08:57:32] I think 80 h/s per watt ASICs are possible for CNv4 [08:57:38] linzhi-sonia where do you produce your chips? TSMC? [08:57:44] I'm cruious how you would expect to build a randomX ASIC that outperforms ARM cores for efficiency, or Intel cores for raw speed [08:57:48] curious [08:58:01] yes, tsmc [08:58:21] Our team did the world's first bitcoin asic, Avalon [08:58:25] and upcoming 2nd gen Ryzens (64-core EPYC) will be a blast at RandomX [08:58:28] designed and manufactured [08:58:53] still being marketed? [08:59:03] linzhi-sonia: do you understand what xmr wants to achieve, community-wise? [08:59:14] Avalon? as part of Canaan Creative, yes I think so. [08:59:25] there's not much interesting oing on in SHA256 [08:59:29] Inge-: I would think so, but please speak [08:59:32] hyc: yes [09:00:28] linzhi-sonia: i am curious to hear your thoughts. I am fairly new to this space myself... [09:00:51] oh [09:00:56] we are grandpas, and grandmas [09:01:36] yet I have no problem understanding why ASICS are currently reviled. [09:01:48] xmr's main differentiators to, let's say btc, are anonymity and fungibility [09:01:58] I find the client terribly slow btw [09:02:21] and I think the asic-forking since last may is wrong, doesn't create value and doesn't help with the project objectives [09:02:25] which "the client" ? [09:02:52] Monero GUI client maybe [09:03:12] MacOS, yes [09:03:28] What exactly is slow? [09:03:30] linzhi-sonia: I run my own node, and use the CLI and Monerujo. Have not had issues. [09:03:49] staying in sync [09:03:49] linzhi-sonia: decentralization is also a key principle [09:03:56] one that Bitcoin has failed to maintain [09:04:39] hmm [09:05:00] looks fairly decentralized to me. decentralization is the result of 3 goals imo: resilient, trustless, permissionless [09:05:28] don't ask a hardware maker about physical decentralization. that's too ideological. we focus on logical decentralization. [09:06:11] physical decentralization is important. with bulk of bitnoin mining centered on Chinese hydroelectric dams [09:06:19] have you thought about including block data in the PoW? [09:06:41] yes, of course. [09:07:39] is that already in an algo? [09:08:10] hyc: about "centered on chinese hydro" - what is your source? the best paper I know is this: https://coinshares.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Mining-Whitepaper-Final.pdf [09:09:01] linzhi-sonia: do you mine on your ASICs before you sell them? [09:09:13] besides testing of course [09:09:45] that paper puts Chinese btc miners at 60% max [09:10:05] tevador: I think everybody learned that that is not healthy long-term! [09:10:16] because it gives the chipmaker a cost advantage over its own customers [09:10:33] and cost advantage leads to centralization (physical and logical) [09:10:51] you guys should know who finances progpow and why :) [09:11:05] but let's not get into this, ha ha. want to keep the channel civilized. right OhGodAGirl ? :) [09:11:34] tevador: so the answer is no! 100% and definitely no [09:11:54] that "self-mining" disease was one of the problems we have now with asics, and their bad reputation (rightfully so) [09:13:08] I plan to write a nice short 2-page paper or so on our chip design process. maybe it's interesting to some people here. [09:13:15] basically the 5 steps I mentioned before, from math to physical [09:13:32] linzhi-sonia: the paper you linked puts 48% of bitcoin mining in Sichuan. the total in China is much more than 60% [09:13:38] need to run it by a few people to fix bugs, will post it here when published [09:14:06] hyc: ok! I am just sharing the "best" document I know today. it definitely may be wrong and there may be a better one now. [09:14:18] hyc: if you see some reports, please share [09:14:51] hey I am really curious about this: where is a PoW algo that puts block data into the PoW? [09:15:02] the previous paper I read is from here http://hackingdistributed.com/2018/01/15/decentralization-bitcoin-ethereum/ [09:15:38] hyc: you said that already exists? (block data in PoW) [09:15:45] it would make verification harder [09:15:49] linzhi-sonia: https://the-eye.eu/public/Books/campdivision.com/PDF/Computers%20General/Privacy/bitcoin/meh/hashimoto.pdf [09:15:51] but for chips it would be interesting [09:15:52] we discussed the possibility about a year ago https://www.reddit.com/Monero/comments/8bshrx/what_we_need_to_know_about_proof_of_work_pow/ [09:16:05] oh good links! thanks! need to read... [09:16:06] I think that paper by dryja was original [09:17:53] since we have a nice flow - second question I'm very curious about: has anyone thought about in-protocol rewards for other functions? [09:18:55] we've discussed micropayments for wallets to use remote nodes [09:18:55] you know there is a lot of work in other coins about STARK provers, zero-knowledge, etc. many of those things very compute intense, or need to be outsourced to a service (zether). For chipmakers, in-protocol rewards create an economic incentive to accelerate those things. [09:19:50] whenever there is an in-protocol reward, you may get the power of ASICs doing something you actually want to happen [09:19:52] it would be nice if there was some economic reward for running a fullnode, but no one has come up with much more than that afaik [09:19:54] instead of fighting them off [09:20:29] you need to use asics, not fight them. that's an obvious thing to say for an asicmaker... [09:20:41] in-protocol rewards can be very powerful [09:20:50] like I said before - unless the ASICs are so useful they're embedded in every smartphone, I dont see them being a positive for decentralization [09:21:17] if they're a separate product, the average consumer is not going to buy them [09:21:20] now I was talking about speedup of verifying, signing, proving, etc. [09:21:23] they won't even know what they are [09:22:07] if anybody wants to talk about or design in-protocol rewards, please come talk to us [09:22:08] the average consumer also doesn't use general purpose hardware to secure blockchains either [09:22:14] not just for PoW, in fact *NOT* for PoW [09:22:32] it requires sw/hw co-design [09:23:10] we are in long-term discussions/collaboration over this with Ethereum, Bitcoin Cash. just talk right now. [09:23:16] this was recently published though suggesting more uptake though I guess https://btcmanager.com/college-students-are-the-second-biggest-miners-of-cryptocurrency/ [09:23:29] I find it pretty hard to believe their numbers [09:24:03] well [09:24:09] sorry, original article: https://www.pcmag.com/news/366952/college-kids-are-using-campus-electricity-to-mine-crypto [09:24:11] just talk, no? rumors [09:24:18] college students are already more educated than the average consumer [09:24:29] we are not seeing many such customers anymore [09:24:30] it's data from cisco monitoring network traffic